If I was in a Fantasy MLM Shut Down League I'd be crushing it this week. And for the season, I'd already have Zeek Rewards, Network Marketing VT, and now Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing.

Watch for criminal charges on this one. FHTM seems to have been a thorn in the Kentucky AG's side for a while, and as rule, AG's aren't really big on forgiveness or a sense of humor when it comes to ripping off consumers.

http://www.npros.com/2013/1/29/fortune-hi-tech-marketing-shut-down---assets-seized---by-kentucky-ag/

 

Yeah I get it.. I know what they do.. They try to copy us, line for line except they fall very short.. We are the "Amazon.com"  to their  "garage sale">> i just dont understand why someone would want to waste their time listening to a company telling their reps that they are inventing the Wheel.. Sorry Its already been done,, VERY successfully i might add..

 You dont create a pardigm shift or turn an industry on its ear just by trying to make a carbon copy of whats already been done.. A company might actually have to have an original idea of their own.... You guys are always saying you have the best thing out there yet refuse to look at anything else or even acknlowlege the fact that its even possible.. We are doing the Excact same thing you are but with More products, Better backing, Better technology, credibility, sales track record, no legal issues, products, services, training, pays no less than 10 times more for the excact same effort.. 80% higher on retention.. Seriously? it can be as simple as comparing the IDS.. How can you argue the fact that our AVERAGE UFO does over $75,000 VS FHTMs $149 per year.. There are companies out there that pay 40 to 80 times higher for the same efforts.. AND THIS DOESNT BOTHER YOU?????

Its like saying here are 2 - 1000 pound piles of rocks..  I want you to move just one of them to the back yard 

OPTION A: .. The one on the left you can use a tractor for and ill pay you 100K a year for life when your done..  

OPTION B : The Pile on the right you can only use this little plastic Fisher-Price shovel for, and for every piece you drop or loose you put it back in the pile and start over again.. When your done with moving that pile Ill pay you about $500 bucks per year but you have to rebuild the pile every year in order to get it..

You Are choosing OPTION B.. Why? And why would you try to lead ANYONE else  into doing something that not the best possible option for them? I seriously wouldnt be able to sleep at night If i knew thats what I was doing...  Im sure you STILL refuse to believe thats what you are doing.. But Seriously! do you really believe EVERY industry expert on the planet thats not part of FHTM has a problem with them becausue they are jealous and because they are doing something so well?? Do you REALLY believe that??..  Im not trying to just bash a company here.. i never do that. I am trying to stick up for the indusrty as a whole and defend it from the companies that give direct sales a bad name and makes hard working, honest peoples jobs very difficult..

Im tired of having to clean up the mess companies like this leave behind.... Feel free to contact me and we could have a conversation about this so you dont think im ripping you personally... Its nothing personal.

It wouldn't make sense or be fair if they gave away the residual income to other reps that didn't earn it.  Instead, they roll it into the vacation program or the car lease program to reward those who work hard.  I've been in for a while & I'm earning a great residual income & so is my team & we're pretty happy about it as well as the customer acquisition bonuses.  I don't see a problem with the pay plan.  We get paid a higher residual income at the 8th level where most companies stop because Paul knows that you'll have more customer gatherers on your 8th level than on your first couple.  We gather customers & other customer gatherers.  Half of the top earners have joined only 2 or 3 years ago & work very hard.  Due to the advancements of websites, webinars & trainings in the last few years, you can advance quickly & pass your upline.  They're are on the leaderboard repeatedly & help us out tremendously at trainings.  I don't need to get out a calculator & figured it all out.  My website tracks it all & I get a nice check every week.

We've just added Xoom Energy to our companies.  We offer power & natural gas in deregulated markets.  It will be the next transfer of wealth just like long distance 20 years ago.  The CEO & his lawyers must have seen something pretty remarkable with this company.  Charlie Ergen, Billionaire & former President & CEO of Dish Network personally came out & set up a Dish in the parking lot for demostration 10 years ago & we've had a strong relationship ever since.  We are their largest gatherer of loyal customers.  Charlie is one of the richest people in the US & was in Forbes magazine as one of the top CEOs of a company.  He & his lawyers seem pretty happy with the company as well.  We market cell phones, home phones, internet service, health & beauty, contact lenses, health & nutrition, energy drinks, golf, power & gas & soon to be coffee, pre-paid cell phones, & medical id cards & a dial-a doctor service.  Stuff that people will use no matter how bad the economy gets.  The posibilities are endless.  It is designed to change with the times.

I know the tagline 'for reps, by reps" but then they proceed to make it the most top heavy plan in the industry.. I dont get that one.. Cant you see that? Has anyone NEW broken into the top 10 earners category in the last 10 years?? I know the answer, so how can it possibly be an even playing field. Im just trying to help you out here.. Im not saying your at fault or are doing something wrong..

 10% is VERY far fetched especially because thats NOT how they pay no matter what they are telling you.. If they are in fact telling that to you, its a flat out LIE and perhaps Paul can explain that when your in his office after your promotion...Add up all the percentages you get paid from in your comp plan and average it out amongst the levels.. Its less than 16% from what I can tell and I believe Im being very generous at 16.. Its probaly more like 5%.. But either way How can they say they pay 90%?  If your getting 16% from group sales thats what they are paying back.. How does 16% magically turn into 90%..   Your cars are Leases they are by no means "free".. Im sorry I get passionate about this but I just hate seeing people get taken advantage of so blatantly..Again its not YOUR fault.. Up to this point you are just a victim.. After that though you are a volunteer.. People ARE NOT leaving FHTM for the reasons your upline is telling you.. You should probably talk to some of them and hear it straight from the horses mouth.. The things you are saying are EXACTLY what the other reps say.. Its what you are being led to say and believe.. I would strongly suggest just getting into the network marketing world as a whole and learning everything you can..  Getting your info from only one source in this business is highly detrimental.

WOW!! When a rep leaves, the company jumps in and pays themselves on that spot rather than close it out and allow for more income for the reps???  Im FLOORED by that one. Not sure about that one.. might want to check your source.. That just sounds like 10 kinds of illegal to me. but I could be wrong on that. If that the case they would have to maintain the activity requirements on each  spot and and submit the required documents to the IRS/FTC showing 70% of sales going to real customers like your required to do quarterly, now to stay a legal distributor.  What happens to the customers?? Corporate maintains the customers?? Does the "upline" still get credit for the activity?.. Somethin aint right there....  Send me an email at mssi2@verizon.net I would be happy to network with you or help you out where I can..

 

 

You're absolutely right about it being a business & it's all about moving products & services but this is a business that was created by a rep for reps with his own money.  It wasn't created for the owner to profit or a bunch of business owners or stockholders to profit.  He even calls you when you promote & you can tour the office & sit down & talk with him.  10% isn't that far-fetched if they're generating millions a year in revenue.  You have to also think about the people that get started & quit when they could have simply gathered 10 customers in their first 30 days & would have gotten their $99 back & the ones at the top who leave an awesome residual check behind because they think there is a shortcut somewhere else & they choose not to renew.  There is a lot of residual income that is unclaimed.  This money funds the vacations & the free cars & helps pay the corporate staff.  Our trainings are very good & consist & cover all aspects of building a successful business.  

I respect your opinions MSSI.  You sound  much more intelligent than most of the bashers, lol.  What is your company & what do you market.  I'd be glad to take a look & compare.

90%..??? I might have to rest my case on this one.. Network marketing is a BUSINESS not a signup game.. If you treat it like a signup game you will be in business with people that know nothing about running a business and the whole company will suffer. ANYONE that has any education in Business and how to operate one would know that their is no way a company can operate on 10% and saying something like that to people that matter just makes it look like you are running a get rich quick scheme. I would strongly suggest some business courses or training other than the biased kind they are feeding you.. Business does not run on Emotion and excitement, It runs on product, structure, Sales training.. etc.. Ive seen your trainings.. Its all emotion and stories.. NO substance on how to actually build a business.. You might want to hit some trainings from other companies in order to be successful. Theirs is not doing anyone any favors.. Again.. I cant fault you if you dont know.. You only know what you know.. Im just saying there is a whole other world out there with tons of credibility, pay and REAL support systems through standardized, effective, nuts and bolts SALES and Business training..

You cant get back 90%.. The company would sink.. NO company can operate on 10%.. You have no way of knowing what they actually pay back VS what they bring in.. FHTM does not disclose that. You are just repeating what you have heard and it does nothing but make matters worse for you guys..FHTM used to be about 5% or less but they had to switch the plan to keep from getting shut down.. I dont think its any more than 16% now on average though.. No one knows but Paul. 

I just showed you a better pay plan, better product line, better credibility, better branding etc.. VASTLY BETTER.. In fact its the highest paying plan in all of direct sales and with the highest success rate, per rep... BAR NONE!!  If it wasnt unethical to pull people from other companies I would say "So, I guess you will be switching to us now right?" ha ha

Please go back & read what I wrote.  I was referring to Amway when I said second largest.  I never said Donald Trump endorsed FHTM.  I was referring to ACN.  I can't reason with someone who "researches" companies.  All I can say is that if you want to learn & get experience, then you need to join for yourself & talk to someone who has had success & get yourself trained rather than google something & call it research.  Why would you want to base your decision on someone who failed is beyond me.  If someone had a bad experience, you don't know if they joined & then sat around or quit when someone told them no.  Everyone has different results with different companies.  It would be like someone spending money on golf clubs & lessons & then quitting when they had no success & tell everyone that it's bullshit.  You can really apply it to anything but people love to single out network marketing.  If you're lazy then don't waste your money & keep doing what you're doing.  No one makes money unless customers are gathered.  We build teams of people who gather customers for us, just like any other MLM.  Some people join & then never gather their initial customers so they never make money.  That happens with all MLM companies.  That's why they all get accused of being pyramids.  Many companies are publically traded & the reps don't make as much as the stockholders do.  They get maybe 30-40% of what the company generates.  We get back 90% of what we generate because we're privately owned.  I'll gladly look at any other company & switch if their pay plan is better. 

Im sorry.. Ive been in the Direct sales industry for awhile now.. I never bash other companies but the lack of ethics and flat out lies these guys tell are a blight on the industry.. They are making everyone look bad with their spins and deception.. If they ever took the time to look at what a REAL company does instead of just buying into the BS from their uplines they would be shocked.. 

*FHTM wasnt "chosen" for anything.. They paid $1338 for the Add in the insert from DSN.. The DSN does not endorse or support any one company over another.. It was a simple Ad and nothing more.

* We were "endorsed" by the USA today is another thing they tell people.. What a crock.. The only thing USA today has EVER said about them are in articles like this http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/2010-10-15-multilevelmarketing14_CV_N.htm 

 *Then they talk about "oh we were featured in Success magazine". ANOTHER  misdirection and simply paid advertising. Companies that are featured on the cover of Success From Home agree to buy at least $330,000 worth of issues, according to a description of the prerequisites obtained by USA TODAY

* Heres a good quote from them.. "people dont take shots at a burned out light bulb".. ha ha Jerry Sandusky is getting allot of attention too, Using their thought process He must be a Saint..

* They are NOT a member of the DSA.. look it up.. Their application was refused on a number of occasions. The DSA want nothing to do with them.

* they have a D- rating from the BBB, actually up from a F at one point. They never joined the BBB because they cant compete with ethical companies and are trying to hide the fact... to bad you cant escape Hoovers or Dunn & Bradstreet..

* They dont try to recruit from other companies?? Even mentioning something like that is a farce as it is against ANY companies policies to do that.. They Couldnt do it if they tried because they dont have a leg to stand on.


* I dont call gathering a bunch of affiliate links and 3rd part distribution 'turning an industry on its head".. They will NEVER be #1 at anything except taking credit for the worst comp plan.. EVER

HERE ARE SOME THINGs A REAL COMPANY DOES VS THEM>

 

An A+ better business rating and the same with Dunn&Bradstreet and Hoovers.. The BBB being a sham comments are rediculous.. Even if the BBB was a sham do you really want to have to explain that away all the time?? Isnt it easier to just get a real  businees partner rather than have to sign just anyone up quick before they get a chance to go home and check the internet? How much time do they like spending overcoming all the objections of the negative press?.. How many prospects do they have that go into the "prospect protection program" if they dont sign them on the spot?.. How many quit when they find out the truth? I can say from experience its nice to be able to say "take your time in making a decision, Do some research, the more you look the better WE look" Its much easier to have a company you can easily recruit for, plus they actually stick and stay because they make money.. I have actually turned down as many people as I have brought on (that will be a foreign concept to the MLM mentality)  I can sponsor 20 to their 1 because of these things.. I sponsor roughly 1 out of 5 people I talk to and they can go home and check the internet all they want without me having to innoculate them much at all.

This is not about promoting my own deal here, Anybody can beat FHTM.. Even companies like Arbonne that have traditionally been the worst paying. So I wont mention my company name but just as an example A "REAL" company will have:

*Less than 180,00 reps with over 500, million dollar earners to their 20

*Consecutive quarters of growth since day one and the SAME corporate team since DAY 1

*  ZERO negative press reports  or any other legitimate negative reports.         

* an 82% rep retention rate measured over 5 years (because 82% make money) rather than 1% at best (because only 1% make money or break even)

*an AVERAGE income of  over $75K/year                                                                                 FHTM is Approx $149/year (only including the ones getting paid)

*We include EVERYONE in our IDS                                                                                            They include ONLY the ones getting paid.

*Will have no less than 40 times more 6 figure earners per capita but Realistically  80 times more if  FHTM reps that earned ZERO were included in what they boast in their income disclosures.

* will have legitimate, negotiated partnerships with over 4500 retailers and 100s of manufacturers, rather than just a compiled list of affiliate links and 3rd party distribution lines,, One example is our strategic partnership with Mindy Grossman and HSN..  http://people.forbes.com/profile/mindy-f-grossman/100398

* Real cashback, searchable price comparrison search engine, We just bought shop.com that owns the patents on the technology Amazon used to make them #1

* $160+ million put back into the company over the last 2 years for branding and technology VS $1.4 Million

*Zero spent on Lawsuits,, Never had em, NEVER will..

* over 50million searchable products and services with price comparrison.

* will have more 6 figure earners per capita than ANY direct sales company by about 4 times at min.

*We measure success by how many we help make money                  They measure success by how much the guy at the top makes or made..

example: Paul Orbison made allot of money in MLM.. this is true HE made the money.. How do you measure success though?? Here is how I measure it..

The guy who holds the standing record for the last 18 years for getting the most people to a 6 figure income faster than anyone in the history of network marketing did it with OUR business model.. He did that 18 years ago and hasnt worked a day since.. His income has not dropped a dime and has only gone up.. Why? Because he created money earners, several hundred of them. He did not make the money at their expense like your typical MLM and the Paul Orbisons.. Being a big money earner means nothing if its at someone elses expense.. THAT IS NOT SUCCESS

Another example is this.. EVERY one of our reps that has a team of about  150 reps in their organization with 2-3 customers each (less than true average) is making over $1500 to $2100 per week just on residual alone and has ZERO to do with new reps coming on board. In FHTM you would need approx 8 to 10 times that many reps..Their "matrix" shows them making $68,000/month on their "bundles" we are well over $800,000/month when comparing apples to apples. Except this actually happens with us as obviously stated in the IDS and financial reports.. There is no argument or grey area here, Its documented fact as reported to the SEC, FTC and IRS by both companies.. I dont understand why someone would want to waste their time with trying to copy us and get paid so poorly in the mean time.. If they really cared about their people they would take them someplace they can actually make some money.. It MUST be a case of only listening to the upline rather than acting like a business person and doing the research on their own.

*We put out full financial reports,, They hide everything.

* we have done over 4.7Billion in sales and have paid out over 2.7Billion in commissions roughly 60% on every dollar..  They paid back around 5%to 30%, Its hard to tell as they refuse to disclose it.

*The undisputable fact is I can take ANY fhtm rep/team and increase their pay by at least 8 times overnight. Plus it will be permanent rather than temporary.. We only have to build this once.. Obviously,, They have to recruit them faster than they quit, over and over and over and over and over again...

I honestly feel bad for many of the reps over there because they just dont know. They have never had exposure to "the real deal" and they are too brainwashed to even look at anything else to see if they might be missing something... When EVERY SINGLE industry expert says FHTM is on very shaky ground it might be wise to listen to them rather than only the ones that would just say anything to keep you from quitting and spoiling their paycheck.. 

Your analogy is rather weak.

There is no debate - there's nothing to 'dig up'. You make it sound as if people are finding some deep dark secret about some FHTM exec and then posting that, and using it to tarnish the reputation of the company.

FHTM's troubles with the Texas Attorney General didn't require any digging - or any spin. It just is what it is. A fact.

As far as the BBB - I don't personally recognize the BBB as a source in most cases. They are a business - paid for listing members - and at times they do seem to tweak their ratings.

However, the one thing they don't tweak is the number of complaints. And FHTM has tons of them. Tons.

You are spinning so many false memes its almost impossible to address them all in one post. Donald Trump has never "endorsed" FHTM. He has his own company. This same spin has been used when ACN was mentioned on one of his apprentice shows. That's not an "endoresement" any more than having a Dell computer in your office means you are in a partnership with Dell or that they endorse YOU.

FHTM has been labeled by many as a pyramid because all the money is in recruiting, not in referral sales. I applaud your enthusiasm, but quit drinking the FHTM koolaid. ( apologies to koolaid ). Don't just spew out crap you've heard like a lemming until you've researched it. You sound like a talking points video for answering all the "no's" for why people don't want to sign up: 

Attorney General actions

Negative BBB ratings

Coupled with the usual fill-in-the-blank style vague claims of celebrity endorsements.

Finally, the are the second biggest company as compared to ...what? Second biggest in sales? Nope. Second biggest in number of distributors? Nope. They are not even in the top 10 on MLMRankings, and that is the most unbiased ranking resource on the Internet for MLMs and home based business. http://mlmrankings.com/fhtm/

 

 

LOL, this is great.  It reminds me of a political debate when one is gaining momentum & another has to dig up something to try to catch up.  I'm aware of previous lawsuits.  Amway has always been plaqued with lawsuits & they've been accused of being an illegal pyramid scheme countless times & they've been around 50 years & are the second biggest company.  Any company that changes an industry & turns it on it's head is gonna come under scrutiny including Walmart.  When you have reps with any company that go against company policy & start making income claims just to get people to join, then you're gonna have lawsuits when the quitters or the ones that joined & never got started decide to sue & get their money back.  It happens & the company cannot control this or be held at fault for the activities of a few bad apples.  We are in fact members of the DSA & chosen as 1 out of 10 of thousands of companies to be in the September 23rd direct sells insert of USA Today(Look it up!)  for our honesty & integrity & our unlimited payplan.  We've never joined the BBB because the scores of some companies don't reflect their history.  Members are indicated in blue & have better scores.  Imagine that!  We don't try to go to other companies conventions & try to recruit our old downlines by bribing them with money as one weight-loss company does.  Who wants to try to build long term residual income & generational wealth from one product anyway?  2 things will happen.  Either it doesn't work & no one will buy it or it will work & no one will need it.  We don't pay Donald Trump to endorse us on TV or have us on his show.  We don't stop paying after 7 levels when some of your best people come in at levels 30 & below.  We don't pay a percentage of $50 on a much bigger power & natural gas bill, we pay a percent of the entire bill!  You get 1099ed at the end of the year.  We get paid to infinity & we build teams so we don't have to go get customers every month!  That would be retarded!  We are paid on reoccuring bills that we gather one time!  We get bonuses while our residual income is slowly building in the background.  We are 11 years old & headed to number 1 so watch out! 

This just in:

Fortune HiTech Marketing has agreed to refund up to $1.3 million to its Texas customers, resolving the Texas Attorney General?s investigation into potential Deceptive Trade Practices Act violations by the company, including allegations that it operated an illegal pyramid scheme. The settlement agreement prohibits Fortune HiTech from engaging in deceptive trade practices in the future and requires the company to refund up to $299 to each qualified Texas customer, up to a total of $1.3 million.

Fortune HiTech?s customers complained that the company falsely represented the earnings they would achieve if they became one its independent representatives.

Customers may obtain additional information about the settlement and download a refund claim form from the Texas Attorney General?s Consumer Protection Division at www.texasattorneygeneral.gov. Refund claims must be submitted to Fortune HiTech Marketing no later than November 28, 2011.

Read the complete post at http://www.npros.com/2011/11/16/fortune-hitech-marketing-to-refund-texas-customers/

Lets see, your post was in August and since no one has bothered to tell you that they ( FHTM) was not winning their case , they opted to withdraw and mutually settle against Isaacs. Info found on www.fhtmscamnews.com

I have to correct you on your info. At no time did Fortune Social ever sell anything. I was a networking site to promote FHTM and other network marketing companies. No monies were ever charged or gained from this.

Judy Hammersmidt was never an assist AG, She worked for the AGs office, more like a glorified secretary...a totally different title. She has also been let go by the FHTM.

She is more like hammershit now.  Failed at running the company, failed at running her restaurant....just flat failed at everything.

The case against him was because he was using the word "Fortune" which they claimed to own, yet the real owner of that name "Time Inc" stepped in stopping the lawsuit from continuing with that false info being persued by the FHTM so called legal team. So Isaacs won. He has never gone to jail nor has he lost at this case there was never any chance of him going to jail..it was a civil case dummy!. You sir are the one who is wrong about all of this. Apparently the lies coming out of home office is so sugared that you are being lead to believe lies...imagine that!

Now as far as these companies lining up....the only time companies lined up was after the news came out that Home Depot, GE, ATT, Time Inc and others good names were being used to attempt to legitimize the company. So they all filed cease orders against the company and Fortune had to stop using their products, logos and names.

Montana never reversed their decision on the fact that how the company was being promoted was illegal. THE ONLY WAY THEY GOT TO COME BACK TO THE STATE WAS TO CHANGE THEIR PAY PLAN!

Look at the website www.fhtmscamnews.com and you will see alll of the new stories regarding the illegal acitivities of this company.

Texas has filed against them too, so are they stupid? No! A state does not make you pay millions if you are doing a legal business! You are a total idiot for not seeing the truth dude. All of the NSM's are all being held responsible for the millions owed to Texas because Fortune has not paid Texas yet! Yea...The dont have the money to pay so they gave them a letter of credit ..so ..so much for being debt free! They were given a year to pay this off! Now that in itself sounds suspicious in they dont have it now, but we need to recruit alot more people to be able to pay this off?!?

 In fact all of the time that Fortune was saying they were debt free, they had a large debt at a bank and once the news came out they ran over and paid it off hoping to not get caught! I would hate to be an NSM with this company because between the class action and the Texas case they are going to be left holding the bag! I bet Paul is not telling them that! Read it for yourself, it does not take a rocket scientist to see how things are going.

When only less that 5% of people make any real kind of money and when an even fewer amount renew the next year..You have to see that they are planning on you failing after six months and use that money and time to prey upon you.

If this company was so good then why was a third case filed against them by Suzanne Combs who signed Trey Knight up and he became a NSM and then the company took her downline,.. rearanged it and took Trey out to give to Todd Rowland? Talk about an  unethical move! They have both left the company and why ( you have to ask yourself) would anyone leave that is that high up to start all over with another company when they were making the big bucks? Why would anyone leave a million dollar income? Maybe because it was all smoke and mirrors!

Before you post anything ever again you better get your shit straight.

I got news for you, Joe Isaacs and the people who filed these cases are not the only ones who are pissed at this company and the more info that comes out the madder everyone gets. I believe this company has given networking such a bad name that anyone who is looking to join a networking company will run from one they have to continually defend. When the DSA wont allow you to come in and the BBB ( who everyone who does not like their score has an issue with) gives you a D- , you cant overlook these items. When you have good networking companies out there that are A rated and DSA members and are not under attack from the states Ags. It Is all about how illegal ( or now operating at the very most in the grey area) they are!

There is not ONE person who works with FHTM that can honestly say they are making more money in residual income than they are in recruitment bonuses. That is illegal and that is all there is to it!

Keith Cuder should have stayed with ACN where the people are good and the company is legal. I am sure he has found that when you run after Hammersmidt -Hammershit you get  Cuder -kuddies!

Who is the most successful person in MLM you are referring to? Are you referring to Paul Orberson?

What company did he earn his success with? Excel?

And what are you basing that measure of success on? Is it based on his own claims and personal bio, or outside sources?

I'm a fact based skeptic. I have never met a network marketing executive who did not claim he was a 'top earner' or 'million dollar earner' with some other company, but they never seem to explain why they 'retired' from a passive income they usually claim was the equivelent of a rock star payday for a double platinum album. All of the ones I've actually known personally - even the ones who were legitimately earning 6 figures a month - never ever let on when their income started to slip ( or failed ) and they had to start searching for a new company, or launch one of their own.

It takes a lot of cash to maintain the 'lifestyle' that inspires others to put money into a deal. The big house ( usually leased ), the sports car ( usually repossessed ), the smoking hot girlfriend ( usually leaves with the kid and a fat alimony payment )...all that's left after that are big stories about big checks and sometimes a bunk bed at their parents house in Nevada.

Steve Smith claims he was the top earner at Excel. He too has launched other companies, using the same pitch as Paul Orberson. Who is the real "top earner at Excel" or the "top earner in network marketing history"?

 

there is nothing else to say really .  we are structured as a twenty first century distribution model like walmart which means that we aren't tied to any one product or service which means that we can change with the times.  we were started by the most successful person ever in mlm which leaves us as a target to other companies trying to bad mouth us to recruit people.  we aren't limited to a handful of products.  we have everything.  paul knows what works & what doesn't.  i can go online & find something negative about any company if i want to waste time doing it but i'd rather go work my business & help others change their lives.

Great post, Watchdog.  That's one of the most in-depth articles about FHTM I've read yet.  Fact is, I'm not sure they are a 'pyramid scheme', but they've set themselves up to fail with low residual commissions and high sign-on bonuses.  If the government doesn't shut them down, a grawing barrage of negative press will.  Funny, founders were former Excel reps, and this is part of the problem Excel had!

FHTMrep - you need to put down either the cup of coffee or the FHTM kool-aid for a bit.  Watchdog's post was FULL of items you can either verify or refute, but you instead come out slinging insults, and calling people quitters, then blaming the woes of the company on Joe Issacs?

I don't care how long the company has been around, how much is sells a year, how many people have been sweet talked into it.  A scam is a scam, proven by Enron and Madoff and (according to Perry, Social Security).

I'm an MLM Advocate and actively involved in mine - but your reply to watchdog only hurts your company, coming across like a temper tantrum.  From what I see, their pay structure is loaded to sign-on bonuses and very little from products.  Please help all us 'losers' who don't "get" FHTM because we're "Lazy" understand the company.

 

Oh, BTW, the Better Business Bureau is a joke.  That's why we aren't members.  If you haven't noticed that, then check out corporations that are actually members.  They will be high-lighted in BLUE.  Check out how many complaints that some have like Walmart & Toyota & then look at their ratings.  Toyota has killed several people & they have a great rating!  They give you a better score if you are a member, plain & simple.  Check it out!

Wow, I'm glad mlmwatchdog knows how to google.  He has no experience what so ever with FHTM.  People love to feed off of negative shit.  No one wants to talk to someone thats been successful, just those that haven't.  What kind of research is that?  That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of!  Google is nothing but a bathroom wall that quitters love to post their rants.  If you join a business & you don't do anything then you don't make anything.  Wow, imagine that, just like a job, huh?  It doesn't make it illegal or a pyramid or something to avoid just because it didn't work for you.  It just means that you quit because you're lazy I guess.  You couldn't take being rejected because you tried to make it personal.  You think a car salesman sells everyone he talks to a car?  No, but he doesn't go suck his thumb when he doesn't & quit or call car selling a scam.

Joe Issacs started a website when he was in FHTM called fortunesocial.com where he was charging other reps money for information.  Former Assistant U.S. Attorney General Judy Hammersmidth ask him to remove the site because he was trying to profit off of other reps which is against policy or she would terminate him.  He refused & told her that if he was terminated that he would make life hell for FHTM.  When he was kick out, he began slandering the company, calling ABC news & NBC news & making bogus claims.  He falsified documents, made false claims, & even claimed that he himself was a lawyer.  FHTM filed a suit aginst him & he is currently facing jail time for what he has done.

The truth is that every Multi-Level Marketing company has been called a pyramid scheme at some point by people that don't understand the concept, even Amway & they've been around over 50 years & are an international company.  None of them are even shaped like a triangle or pyramid because no business works perfectly.  Some do more than others & others do nothing so it looks more like a spiderweb.  Most companies are based solely on residual income from what you sell every month.  If you didn't build a team, then you'd have to do all the selling yourself.  Corporations love marketing companies because they can move so much product by word of mouth instead of those companies paying for expensive advertising.  We do business in all 50 states & 4 countries & are branching into more thanks to Judy Hamersmidth, former assistant US Attorney General under Ronald Reagan.  She took Herbalife into over 50 countries & now heads up our legal team!  We have an awesome legal team that also includes 2 former state attorney generals that make sure that FHTM abides by each state's laws because each state has different laws when it comes to network marketing, especially North Dakota & Montana.  We were ordered to restructure in those 2 states & are happy to say they are now thriving. 

What sets FHTM apart from others is the fact that we were started debt free, stockholder free, & investor free & still remain that way 10 years later.  That means that we keep what we make & we don't have to answer to anyone.   A lot of companies like pre-paid legal are publicly traded & bought out by others.   We were also started by the most successful person to ever participate in this industry, Paul Orberson knows what works & what doesn't.  He made over 75 million dollars with a long distance company called Excel Communications.  He left when they went public because he felt that decisions wouldn't be made in the best interests of the representatives.  He started this company with his own money & dedicated to the success of others.  That will never be done again!  When large corporations found out that he had started a company, they flocked to Lexington to try to get on our menu screen.  They want to be align with us because of his previous success.  All we do is gather customers one time & since all the bills are reoccuring, it is not an ongoing selling process.  Paul also implements bonuses because he knows from experience that residual income takes a while to build & he knows that people won't stick around if they can't make money within a week or two.  These companies pay out bonuses for team building because each new person is bringing in at least 10 more customers for these companies & were getting paid on their bills too!  If you work harder than someone above you then you make more & can pass them in rank & that's very fair!  This is the most simple & perfect business if you're not afraid of hard work because it's recession proof because no one will stop paying their power bill, gas bill, phone bill, tv bill, or internet bill just to name a few!

Wow, the truth shall set you free!

     

by Adam Walser

WHAS11.com

Related:

 

(WHAS11) - It's been called the fastest, easiest and cheapest way to own your own business… Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing, based here in Kentucky, is growing rapidly worldwide.

The company says average people can quickly make big bucks by selling products from well known, trusted companies.

But former Fortune managers tell WHAS11 that the company is a pyramid scheme, where raises and promotions are not based on product sales, but on recruiting.

FHTM is seemingly turning up everywhere…all over the Internet, on YouTube and in meeting rooms, auditoriums and restaurants in all 50 states.

An estimated 200,000 representatives have been recruited, mostly at scheduled weekly gatherings.

In Louisville, they're held at the Fern Valley Inn and at Furlong's Restaurant. 

“You’re gonna get paid $100,000 a year for doing exactly what you do today,” said Florida Fortune Representative Trey Knight, one of the company’s top recruiters in a promotional video obtained by WHAS11.

Todd Rowland, a Fortune Rep from Arkansas, claims before a packed meeting room, “Last month, what I was paid on a monthly basis was more than I would have been paid in five years coaching at the high school level.”

The pitches promise fast cash with help from a higher power.

Kevin Mullens, a Pentecostal pastor out of Crawford, FL delivers his recorded speech inside a church.

He encourages other pastors in the audience to get involved by signing up members of their congregations.

“The Lord wanted you to be here today,” he says during a recruiting session under a cross. “Can't survive. Can't pay your bills and all of the sudden, the Lord opened a door.”

FHTM says you can make money by representing products your family already uses, like GE, Dish Network, Travelocity, and Home Depot.

“Everyone in this room is familiar with these names on the screen,” said Woodson Gardner, an Executive Sales Manager from Charlotte, NC, as she shows a Power Point presentation featuring the names of  several Fortune 500 companies. “Chances are you are already doing business with them. They factor in your life. They factor in your world.”

But some former representatives we talked to said that the focus of Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing is on anything but the products.

“They don't even train you in how to sell the product,” said Joseph Isaacs of Tampa, who joined Fortune in 2009.

“It's a people mill. They just run them through,” said Isaacs.

“Your promotions are not based on product volume. They're not even based on product sales. They're based on the number of people you bring in and recruit into the business,” Isaacs said.

Recruitment is a recurring theme.

“When you get your first three people signed up, you will have made $300, so you're quickly back to even on your investment,” said Rowland, while pointing to a graph on the screen during his presentation. “Then we'll teach them the exact same thing and everything necessary to repeat the process.”

“If you've got 90 people in the room and five of them are guests, something's wrong. It means you didn't put someone in the car and bring them,” said Mullens, speaking at the church.

Joseph Isaacs brought plenty of people to meetings, and signed them up for FHTM. That helped him quickly rise to the level of Regional Manager.

“98 percent of my income came from recruiting others into the business,” Isaacs said. “I made $16 in residuals in six months.” Residuals are the payments from the sale of products.

The commissions are as low as one-half percent, according to Fortune’s pay structure plan.

“If I got switch my own cell phone over, as an example, I make a $1 a month on my cell phone bill. So I'm making $12 a year. If I switch over somebody else, I make a nickel a month, so I make 60 cents a year.”

But payments received for recruiting new members range from $100 for those at the lowest level to $480 for a National Sales Manager.

Former representatives say that the top National Sales Managers can each make $20,000 on a good night of recruiting, so they constantly tour the country, speaking at local Fortune meetings.

“He's there for one reason and one reason only. When you get in the business, the guy makes $400. So the only thing he cares about is your $400. He doesn't care if you're successful or not. He knows it's a numbers game,” said Isaacs.

WHAS11 talked to another woman who sold her business to join Fortune.

“I can't tell you how stupid I feel that I fell for this,” said the woman, who doesn’t want to be named.

“Once I started doing the numbers, I realized something's terribly wrong here,” she said.

The former Regional Director says Fortune overcharges for many products.

“I called Allstate and asked them how much this package of roadside assistance would be. It was $52 a year. Ours was $191.”

Each Fortune representative is required to buy or sell multiple Fortune products and services in order to accumulate points which allow them to get paid.

Fortune also charges service fees of up to $30 a month just for members to receive weekly commission and bonus checks.

That's in addition to a $299 joining fee, a $250 optional training fee and a $199 annual renewal fee.

Fortune Hi Tech Marketing, headquartered in Lexington, KY, was formed by Paul Orberson and Tom Mills.

Both made millions of dollars in the now-defunct Excell Telecommunications network marketing company, which sold long-distance service in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

“Just this year, there have been three magazines, two cover-to-cover, plus there's been a book written about Paul, our company, his journey,” said Knight, showing the magazine and book covers to an audience of potential recruits.

Knight says in the presentation that Fortune has revenues of $500 Million per year.

Yet the whole operation is based in a suite in a Lexington Office building that it shares with several other businesses.

According to Fayette County, KY land records, Fortune does not own the building, which is featured prominently on the company’s website and in marketing  materials.

“If they told you that, the smoke and mirrors would all be gone,” said Isaacs. “They have to have this big facade that they're this giant mushroom.”

WHAS11 News recently went to the corporate headquarters try to learn more.

Adam spoke with Fortune C.E.O. Tom Mills.

Their crew also recorded the interview.

“People, they're having some tough economic times,” said Mills. “There is the possibility that they're willing to work hard, that they can come with our company and make some money.”

“Everybody wants that dream to be able to have your own business. Be able to build something and not have the boss,” Mills said. .

WHAS11 asked Mills about Cease and Desist Orders filed earlier in 2010 in North Dakota and Montana.

The Montana Auditor alleged that Fortune conducted "a pyramid promotional scheme".

Included in the complaint are letters from many of the alleged partner companies saying that they have no direct sales agreements with Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing.

“I have a great deal of respect for the people from both North Dakota and Montana,” Mills said. “The authorities handled it appropriately in my mind, and I think we're moving forward and we're still doing business in their states.”

To continue doing business in those states, Fortune will have to pay about $1 million in fines and refunds. It will also have to change many of its business practices, according to Consent Agreements.

“We can't control, even though we try, everything that's said throughout the country. We're gonna be doing some more concentrated training,” said Mills.

But Joe Isaacs says he doesn't expect the company to really make changes.

“It's an endless recruiting scheme, because it never stops. If you stop recruiting. you don't have any income. You're basically done,” Isaacs said.

 

(WHAS11)  At 6:00 p.m., we took you inside Kentucky-based Fortune Hi Tech Marketing.

The fast-growing company sells products and services, but former members tell us that they made most of their earnings from recruiting new members.

Fortune is believed to have 200,000 members and revenues of up to $500 million a year.

But the company has also been the target of plenty of complaints, from the Better Business Bureau, to the Kentucky Attorney General’s Office, to consumer protection offices in other states.

By most accounts, Fortune Hi Tech Marketing is thriving.

Its members and recruits fill up hotel meeting rooms, churches and even auditoriums nationwide; thanks largely to get rich pitches and relentless pressure to recruit.

“Don’t leave this business!  For your children’s sake!  For your wives and husbands,” pleads Fortune founder Paul Orberson in a video.

“Let’s get you in the system right now,” Pentecostal pastor Kevin Mullens said in a recorded sales pitch.  “Get your game plan.  Get your system.  Get your business paid off.   How soon can you have 5 to 10 people in your house?”

“They announce it at the meetings,” said a former Fortune Regional Manager that WHAS11 interviewed.  “They talk about how much they’ve grown.  Right now, I believe it stands at 200,000.”

But there’s also a growing disillusionment among many Fortune members.  The former Fortune rep quoted above said she sold her business to join the company.

“It’s not right,” said former Fortune Regional Manager Joseph Isaacs.  “There are a lot of people in a recession that are getting burned.  There are a lot of people who are getting hurt,” said Isaacs.

Isaacs said most of the money he earned came from recruiting dozens of new members, not from selling products.

“I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau of Kentucky.  Two weeks later, I got a letter from Fortune telling me I was terminated.  I wasn’t wanted as a rep anymore and it told me to go away,” said Isaacs.

They are not alone in their complaints.

North Dakota and Montana both filed Cease and Desist orders against the company.

In Montana, the state auditor describes the company as a “pyramid promotional scheme”, in which most members they contacted earned little or no money.

Fortune had to pay about $1 million as part of a consent agreement reached last month.

Fortune C.E.O. Tom Mills said those incidents were caused by a few people who didn’t understand the business.

“We can’t control everything, though we try, everything that’s said throughout the country,” said Mills.

Mills didn’t tell us much about his company.  “I don’t really know the number of active reps in the country and Canada and the United Kingdom,” he said.

But when pressed, Mills named his top selling product.  “With Dish, we’re one of their top two or three sellers.”

A letter from Dish’s legal department said the company is not a partner of Dish, but a third party contractor, which anyone can become.

GE, Travelocity and Home Depot have written similar letters denying any direct relationship with Fortune.

Some representatives of Fortune claim sales of $500 million a year.  Yet only five dozen people actually work in the rented suite in Lexington, KY which serves as the company’s headquarters.

Employees there aren’t on the phones talking to customers, but to Fortune sales reps from all over the world.

“Kentucky’s our home state and it’s a matter of pride and honor that we stayed here,” Mills said.

The state of Kentucky is now starting to take notice of Fortune, including the Attorney General’s Office.

“We work in conjunction with federal, state and local law enforcement, and with agencies at the federal, state and local level,” Conway said. “We’re aware of the situation.  We’re monitoring it. Besides that, I really can’t say much.”

The Better Business Bureau, which gives the company an “F” rating, has received more than 40 recent complaints.

“From all I can tell about this operation, it’s primarily about recruiting other people into the network,” said Louisville BBB President Charlie Mattingly. “So I would say people should be cautious.”

“Can you make money in this business? No doubt about it,” said Joseph Isaacs.  “You’ve got to recruit tons and tons and tons of people.  If you can’t do that and you want to just sell products, you won’t make very much at all.”

“…this company, you cannot make an income just on your own by selling these items,” said the former rep, who didn’t want to be named.

Former representatives said there are constant recurring fees.

From $299 to sign up, to training costs, to website fees, to mandatory purchases and even charges of up to $30 a month just to get paid.

They quickly add up to several hundred dollars a year.  That’s bad news for the growing ranks of the unemployed who turn to Fortune.

“People, they’re having some tough economic times and there is the possibility that if they’re willing to work hard, that they can come with our company and make some money,” said Fortune C.E.O. Mills.

“Most people that become involved go broke,” said Isaacs.

But a handful of top Fortune managers are also faring well; earning up to $480 for each new recruit who signs up.  Former reps told us that National Sales Managers can earn tens of thousands of dollars on a good night.

“The problem with pyramid plans is that the people on the front-end make money, but the larger number of people on the back-end always lose money,” said Mattingly.

Only time will tell if Fortune will face more governmental actions or keep on growing.

“My goal, obviously, would be to be the biggest, best network marketing company ever,” said Tom Mills.

Has anyone suggested easy on the caffiene?  Why all the yelling?  Are you sure there are no product requirements?  Seems you fell short in your DD.  To be qualified to get paid you MUST have at least 3 points.

Not have $100 or even $200/mo on a super pill or super juice, just 3 points.  That would mean renewing a maximum of 2 cell phones in a family phone plan and 1 service you are already paying for.

If you are already spending the money why not become your own customer.

Next time choose decaf.

THERE ARE NO PRODUCT REQUIREMENTS IN FHTM. ALL OF THE REVENUE COMES FROM RECRUITING. EVEN WHEN PAID REESIDUALS THEY ARE SO FREAKING SMALL BECAUSE OF THE TOP LOADED PYRAMID SCHEME THAT YOU WONT MAKE ANYTHING ANYWAY.

YOU WOULD BE MUCH BETTER GOING TO THE COMPANIES YOU WISH TO REPRESENT AND GETTING YOUR OWN DEALS......NO UP FRONT FEES AND NO SCAM!

You can set up the affiliate marketing programs directly with Dish, Travelocity and the wireless carriers. BUYER BEWARE. Dont get sucked into the Fortune Hi-Tech pyramid scam. They are illegal and have a multitude of legal woes. You will lose.

Hello All!

I just discovered NPROS.com and thought it was a great place to not only meet some new people but also use the available resources as a good source of 3rd party validation.

 

I am an FHTM rep and see that there are some questions.  Hopefully I can shed some light.

 

I guess from the most recent question. is it a scam.  Well, I'm sure we are used to hearing that no matter what company we are with.  I would recommend watching some of the videos to get some information on the company and how/why it was started.  To address the the question head on, no it's not a scam and in answering this i will also be answering some of the previous questions.

FHTM is kinda like a affiliate program but on STEROIDS.  You see where FHTM excels where many companies falter is in the monthly volume of product.  First off, you will not catch me bad mouthing another company just to make mine look good and truly believe that a good company will stand on it's own merit.

Specifically with a product based company you must have a certain amount of volume flowing every month or you don't get paid plain and simple.  When money exchanges without a tangible service or product then you will be flirting with something along the illegal lines.

Once you join FHTM and you get your first 3 points you are now qualified to be paid on your 1st level.  This is where it gets interesting.  In most companies you need to get 3 separate customers, with FHTM you can be your first 3 points, actually you only need 10 points to be fully qualified.  The only exception is that 2 of those points have to be someone else other than you.  Your points consist of website, cell phone, internet access, roadside assistance etc etc. stuff that you are already using.

But if you want to get some additional information check out the site

http://www.thereelfhtm.net/v103.aspx

And if you have any additional questions feel free to give me a call.

 

404.348.0433

Sincerely,

 

Hector Gonzalez

They have not been exonerated. They made minor changes to their business plan......but that has NOT changed the fact that they are operating nationwide as an illegal endless recruiting Pyramid Scam!

Whistleblower fights back after frivolous suit by FHTM for exposing their ILLEGAL Pyramid Scheme

 

Lexington, Kentucky - June 16, 2010 - In light of all of the recent investments scams including the infamous Bernie Maddoff, whistleblowers and those with morals fear that the frauds they expose will result in unjust lawsuits filed against them by the companies they complain about. One such situation was that of the lawsuit filed by Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing against Fortune Social LLC and Joseph Isaacs in May 2010.

 

Joseph Isaacs and Fortune Social, LLC (collectively “Isaacs”) deny each and every claim brought by Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing, Inc. (“FHTM”) in a filing made today with the American Arbitration Association, who is overseeing this case. In addition, Isaacs fights back and asserts his own counterclaim for relief against FHTM, Paul C. Orberson (individually and in his capacity as President of FHTM), Jeff Orberson (individually and in his capacity as Chief Operating Officer of FHTM), and Thomas A. Mills (individually and in his capacity as Vice-President and Chief Executive Officer of FHTM) (collectively “FHTM”). Isaacs counterclaim claim Breach of Fiduciary Duty, Breach of Contract, Common Law Fraud, Unfair & Deceptive Business Practices, Failure to Register Securities, Fraudulent Practices Regarding the Sale of Securities, Civil Racketeering Conspiracy (violation of the Federal RICO statutes) and Defamation.

 

FHTM operates an unlawful product-based endless recruiting pyramid scheme that relies on untrue and misleading representations and unlawful, unfair, and fraudulent business practices. While FHTM purports to be in the business of selling name-brand services like wireless, satellite television, home security, vitamins, nutritional products and travel services, its true business is using consumers to generate fee income for representing non-existent partnerships, major sports figures, and prominent businessmen. To entice consumers to participate, FHTM makes untrue or misleading claims regarding its relationship with Fortune 100 companies like Verizon Wireless, GE Security, Dish Networks and Travelocity to create the illusion that consumers can become millionaires in three to five years.

 

FHTM’s growth exploded when it began to lure consumers disenchanted with traditional jobs and the recession that began in 2007 to inspirational and high-pressure business opportunity seminars touting an innovative business model that promises huge financial rewards through multi-level network marketing. FHTM erring presenters claim to have proprietary tools, special relationships, and other support that allow consumers to grow their own business by partnering with FHTM’s “companies”.

 

It would not be long before Isaacs (and the world) made several troubling discoveries about FHTM’s business plan and practices that doused his enthusiasm: (1) Paul Orberson had not made any special arrangements with the companies mentioned at the business opportunity/presentation seminar or in the company produced videos; (2) the only way to earn a significant income and be promoted up the ranks was to recruit additional IRs; (3) FHTM had not received regulatory approval for its pyramiding scheme in every state; (4) only a handful of IRs had earned anywhere near the residuals projected; (5) the prominent businessmen, politicians, former attorney generals and sports figures to whom FHTM constantly alluded were in fact IRs actively promoting their own FHTM business; and (6) a growing number of state attorneys general had already begun investigating FHTM in response to numerous complaints.

 

It turns out that FHTM’s ‘innovative’ marketing plan is nothing more than a face lift to an age-old scheme. According to the FTC’s Consumer Protection Bureau:

Pyramid schemes now come in so many forms that they may be difficult to recognize immediately. However, they all share one overriding characteristic. They promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program, not based on profits from any real investment or real sale of goods to the public. Some schemes may purport to sell a product, but they often simply use the product to hide their pyramid structure. There are two tell-tale signs that a product is simply being used to disguise a pyramid scheme: inventory loading and a lack of retail sales. Inventory loading occurs when a company's incentive program forces recruits to buy more products than they could ever sell, often at inflated prices. If this occurs throughout the company's distribution system, the people at the top of the pyramid reap substantial profits, even though little or no product moves to market. The people at the bottom make excessive payments for inventory that simply accumulates in their basements. A lack of retail sales is also a red flag that a pyramid exists. Many pyramid schemes will claim that their product is selling like hot cakes. However, on closer examination, the sales occur only between people inside the pyramid structure or to new recruits joining the structure, not to consumers out in the general public.

 

Nonetheless, the truth is catching up with FHTM. On December 10, 2009, The North Dakota Attorney General's Office filed a Cease and Desist Order for violation of the Consumer Fraud Law, the Transient Merchant Law, the Home Solicitation Sales Law, and the North Dakota Pyramid Schemes Act. On January 19, 2010, FHTM entered into a Assurance of Voluntary Compliance with the North Dakota Attorney General's Office. On March 16, 2010, the Montana State Auditor's Office filed a Temporary Cease and Desist Order against FHTM, Paul C. Orberson, Thomas A. Mills, and Dianne Graber (a Montana IR). According to the Montana State Auditor's Office, FHTM has engaged in acts or practices constituting violations of the Securities Act of Montana, Montana Code ANN.30-10-101 et seq. On April 22, 2010, FHTM agreed to pay nearly $1 million and to change its business practices to resolve the charge that it is operating a pyramid promotional scheme.

 

With each passing day, more states are jumping on FHTM’s bandwagon. The alarming rise in consumer complaints and governmental sanctions has prompted the Better Business Bureau of Central and Eastern Kentucky to downgrade FHTM’s rating from “B-” to “F”. At the same time, a proliferation of online bulletin boards and blogs, such as www.complaintsboard.com and www.scams.com criticize FHTM’s pyramid scheme confirms that Isaacs’ experience is not unique. Will those operations be the next target of Fortune’s high price legal team?