I find all of this fascinating.  Not to attack you jHubbard, but some of your claims are ridiculous.  We have had someone who is a chemist who question the verbage of the claims of ASEA.  Okay, we will overlook your spelling and use of "atoms" as a proper noun and chemotherapy spelled as two words, for starters.  Yet to coin new words to reinvent the usage of old ones is indicative of promoting a philosophy rather than a fact. 

It is so amazing to me how these MLM'ers vehemently defend claims that they themselves have never tested.  Every so often there are new products with lofty claims which seem to appear, disappear, reform and re-appear on the "neo-health" horizon.  I have fell prey to some of them believing their claims.  Obviously, money is the motivation for most claims rather than a commitment to the individual sufferers or to make a difference in the community and the world.  If this si the miracle water from "Salt Lake City," I implore you to bring those healed, cured, and "delivered" individuals from private sectors outside of those who are "selling" this supplement so that they can dispel the snake oil pitch that is so pervasive in the MLM tactics.  JMHO

Greetings everyone, I'm sorry that I have not posted in this thread in quite some time.

Please do not let anger guide you in this discussion, it is not healthy for anyone at all and it risks ending intriguing discussions. Even though I feel that this is not a true product to some degree, I would like to point out how important it is that all minds remain open. I feel it is important to be skeptical, but never ever is it good to expect the worst.

You see my friends, some times good ideas do not land softly, and things must get worse before they get better. The world was once flat you know! People were killed over such a thought, and also it was believed the sun revolved around the earth. Try to be humble, and accept that anything is possible, anything that one can think can be manifested.

ASEA deserves to be looked at, it deserves to be talked about, and its reps deserve to be heard. We must discuss such things with love and kindness, or else we deny everyone the chance to communicate. What if it works? It may be a slim chance, but what if it is all true? How is it that we will treat this new idea, will we treat it as a people that fear change?

Absolutely not my friends, there are so many worthy things to express our anger over, such as starving people in the world, or losing our loved ones..... we must treat ourselves and each other better than that. Please try to remember the value of being kind, diplomatic, and most importantly at peace within. As a wise woman I once knew used to always remind me, that the one comfort in seeing something or someone you do not like is, that you need never be that person, or do that thing.

Namaste

I also see no value in the glowing testimonials from those here with single-digit post counts.  I smell something rotten in that.

Sorry, you have only 1 post here at this time - I can't put any stock in your opinion.

:)

JP

Speak from experience and just give it to someone you want to see get healthy.  

There is nothing I can say to you to convience you that this is what it is.

There is 3rd party test from scientist that have concluded that this is in fact stable redox signaling molecules.

Dr's are using this, hospitals are using this, the athletic community is using this, you just did not get the memo.

There are Universities doing those studies now.

You just need to be in that group of people that needs to wait before they get the data.

Some can not wait.  I am one of those people.  These molecules saved my sons life.

I am not sure who told you about Asea.  We are all individuals and possibly that persons communication skills

were not good for you.

Bottom line....."What if I am right?"

www.myasea.com/sawyer

This is a tough area, primarily because we are dealing with what is essentially, a biological process, or perhaps a chemical one or both. Its a process that is properly explained in an entire text book basically. Here we are, trying to debate it when even someone in pre-med has a hard time explaining it. There are a few bases in this conversation that we should consider. 1) Highly educated people are anything but immune to engaging in fraudulent behavior. That being said, I don't lend more credibility to someone in Yale or Harvard than I do from "Joe Peroni" down at "Micky's auto body shop". That isn't to say I don't respect the almighty power of education; only that in foggy and debatable areas such as this, I don't let research done by someone involved with a company (who wants to make a profit, naturally) determine how legit I think it is. I'm just a pion in regard to medical science, and I'm not qualified to debate the validity of something like this.

My own assessment, is that there probably is alot of truth to Redox signaling. How beneficial it is for your body; that's another topic, one I'm simply not qualified to debate. I think a more useful approach might be to have a chemical analysis done on Asea, see exactly what's in it, and the exact amounts. If it really is little more than salt water, then its a scam because that need not cost more than a bottle of Poland Springs. Is there some type of magnetic, or non-chemical related process it undergoes? I don't know. So with respect to everyone in this thread, try to understand where the other is coming from before you judge too harshly. Physicists lie too you know, and people that don't understand a chemical process, or a technology can judge harshly and from a place of ignorance, and also, a good salesman can sell snake oil with minimal credibility.

I would not buy this product, but that's just me.

I decided to come back and apologize to you Paul.

I don't feel differently about ASEA, but I think enough things have been said lately to see that I over reacted and I'm sincerely sorry for jumping so hard that I made fun of a typo. Low blow on my part and probably a bit immature. I make typos all the time, and it also didn't occur to me that English may not be your native language, and as someone pointed out, if that's the case, then you're a better man than me because I can only speak English. Sometimes we are probably going to have to accept that we won't have any kind of solid verdict on a company, and that not every question will be answered. For me, I'd need a study done by a reputable medical journal to convince me that ASEA water itself has a positive effect on the human body, and not only that, but also enough of an effect. Until then, I can get mad and we can all debate until the end of time and we won't get anywhere.

So I'm off. I hope you return to discuss this topic Paul, and again, I apologize if I said anything offensive and for resorting to picking on grammar. I wonder, do you know of any other sources to actually show that redox signaling is occurring in ASEA water? Is there a place where the testing has confirmed this?

I understand not putting stock in my opinion with just one post, I found this forum the day I posted.  ASEA will prove itself over time.

Take care all!!

My husband is a skeptic with a severe, longstanding  sleep problem. After 2 days on ASEA his sleep problem was 90% fixed and he is now an ASEA distributor. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof " -- but he has the extraordinary proof. His site is:  redox-for-health.com

Read the published scientific studies. This is not just 'salt water' -- it does not taste like salt water. After 6 weeks on ASEA I am now jogging/sprinting a mile per day and I have bad knees and severely arthritic toes. Don't badmouth it if you haven't tried it. There is a 30 day guarantee so you have nothing (except shipping around $10) to lose.

Evidently you have neither tried ASEA nor read the findings of independent testers. You speak out of ignorance. There is a 100% money back guarantee on the product. Try it and then decide. Read the published findings and explain what you think is wrong with them.

My last writing is to say this:  it sounds to me like the majority of the responders are all  dismissing this product because of the way it is sold and not the science behind it.  We know what it is.  It is an oxidative molecule and a reductive molecule and we know how it functions in the body.  The text books are an example.    One could doubt that they actually stabilized and balanced those molecules outside the body. That is understandable. They have 27 patents on the process and of course will not tell their process, which would lend to copy cats, but the majority of those discussing this blog are focusing on the way it is being sold.   

 I am attracted to this product because it is backed by science that was first discovered without financial bias.  Additionally, the people involved with this product are legitimate innovators that are doing other amazing things for the health industry, such as the example I gave with the nano robots.  For them to create a scam is unlikely.  12% VT change for athletes is a pretty big claim that most would consider destine for immediate failure.  I saw the results of the test of 60 highly fit endurance athletes and through a networking group talked to a cyclist who coaches at lifetime fitness that takes it and he swears by it.  In the end you can decide for yourself, but stop the salt water claim.  Did they or how did they stabilize and balance oxidative and reactive molecules for real... that's what you should be debating.  I have seen all the evidence I need between the VO2max testing and the caliber of the people involved.  I don't claim to be smarter than anyone else because I was pre-med.  I mentioned it because I learned about the science of redox signaling before it was financially beneficial. I do consider people that state absolute claims against something, without being somewhat objective, ridiculous. 

Here's a question.  Given that we know redox signaling is a real thing, why do you say you would not try a product that claims is has stabilized the molecules for consumption?  That is the basis for my writing in this blog.  There's more evidence on the side that they stabalized it with their recent validated medical journal entries and vo2max testing.  Yet, you dismiss that evidence because of what...It is being sold as an MLM so it must be a scam?  It's suspended in sodium chloride so it must be just salt water?  What is the reasoning against the evidence of the vo2 max testing?  Thanks everyone.  Lively debate.    

Thank you for the last two who replied in an reasonable manner and for putting up with my misspellings and grammar.   

First and foremost, it really isn't necessary to get upset in any kind of thread, its not worth your health. Most often -I know this from experience- companies campaign on the Internet using simple tactics like flooding the Internet with terms that debunkers and skeptics will use to search for damaging information. That's why you can type in "Asea Scam" and find mostly if not all positive articles using that negative term to get you to it. They do not limit it to that either, in fact you can utilize any variation of Asea and a negative counterpart and be lucky to get any kind of negative result.

Another effective tactic is to focus more on the chemical process than the actual product, whereas if you argue to a rep that you feel their product doesn't work, they will point you to articles and scientific studies about redox signaling, and how science has already proven that it works. Unfortunately, it seems that unbiased sources that prove the product actually does manage to utilize redox signaling, exist virtually nowhere. They will provide you with link after link of ASEA affiliated articles, interviews, test results, and special "rep-accessible only" documents that prove that it does, unfortunately none of it is actually referenced in any kind of scientific journal. WallaceL seems to understand what I mean according to statements he made in an en-virotabs thread.

These types of products thrive on an uninformed consumer, and are based on repetition and sales hyperbole. One can almost sympathize with the consumer because it is actually very challenging not to be overwhelmed with the "evidence" presented. The scientific method protects us from these kinds of things, unfortunately, the average person does not apply this to advertising. Instead of asking reps, companies and advertising firms to "show me the money", they have resorted to giving theirs away.

Just my 2 cents.

  Please.  Where are the published findings?  Who are they published by?  Why don't you provide a link to them?  Where are the findings of the "independent testers"?  How was their test structured and designed?  Links, please.  I can't find any legitimate independent studies anywhere.

A money back guarantee means nothing.  Lot's of crap products have money back guarantees.  It's just a marketing ploy.  Few dissatisfied customers ever ask for their money back on anything.

Finally, you don't have to try it to know that it is nonsense. A little objective thought and a little bit of research (if you need it) will tell you pretty quickly.   You just have to cut through all the noise generated by all the people with vested interests trying to sell you the crap.

They have 27 patents on the process and of course will not tell their process, which would lend to copy cats, but the majority of those discussing this blog are focusing on the way it is being sold.   

It sounds like you misunderstand the patent process and the reason for obtaining a patent in the first place.

A patent provides protection against "copy cats"

A patent application ( you state there are 27 "patents" ) are public records. And actual patent can be looked up at the USPTO online. Lots of companies say they have 'patents' when in fact they only have 'provisional patents' which are applications that last a year.

I could submit a patent application for a method of turning water into wine ( sorry Jesus ) and it would be completely private, but I could legally use the term "Patent Pending" on my "Turns Water Into Wine" website for a full year, and then would have to either file a full patent application, or abandon the provisional application.

So saying they won't "tell their process" just shows a complete understanding of patents. I don't know enough about Asea to determine if you are drinking their kool-aid, but definitely research patents and patent protection before posting things that suggest they are keeping their 27 patents secret to keep people from reproducting their <sarcasm> magic water. </sarcasm>

I'm probably going to bail out of this thread as well, as I am not sure I have any more sophomoric contributions left to add. I would legitimately feel bad if I found myself having falling into the kind of crowd that violently insisted that the world was flat, but consider this; You supposedly have this amazing new technology in the form of ASEA water. It is amazing enough from a health and nutritional perspective to be on par with vitamins and other well received products. With respect to legit mlms, why in the world would you release it using this medium? Wouldn't you perhaps make some real scientific waves first; demonstrate scientifically how you are capable of doing it so that the world sees what you have one is legit; and THEN, after it gets some credibility; sell it however you please? That's what most people have done throughout history. Vitamins came into the game in the early 1900's, and even they gave a more respectable presentation. What I'm left thinking is that this market was chosen because somewhere along the line there is a flaw, something left out, or overlooked. It kind of reminds me of the recent Regenerect debacle...Safe for now, but we will see what happens soon enough, if anything. Good luck with those patents.

Now, I just cannot step over this.  I have worked in the legal industry for more than 25 years.  I have worked in copyrights and patents (and more importantly, worked in patents for Pfizer).  Not only have I worked in patents, I have bee privy to the actually processes and nuances of a product from beginning to end in its journey to get a patent.  What Jhubbard may or may not know, and some have touched on it here, is that it actually means nothing to have a patent or even a patent pending.  Patents do not legitimize a product.  All patents for the most part do is safeguards the process of what someone creates that product.  And there is a great loophole there for the legitimacy of the creation in question -- time!  A patent can take years before it is approved.  And a lot of money can be made while waiting for that approval.  So, it get approved, does that make it legitimate?  Absolutely NOT!  That would make any product having a patent appear to have the stamp of Good Housekeeping approval!  Maybe the FDA would have to evaluate it, not enough money or time for that,  cowboy.  

That being said, I wonder if Jhubbard was also an MLM sales man for Ocean Plasma or Innerlight Prime PH, another high-priced, high claim, water supplement.  (Actually the person who sold me on the Innerlight just sent me an email for Asea.  Go figure.)  So fess up Jhubbard, do you sell Innerlight too?   I believe they never got FDA approval of that either.   They never proved what their claims.  (By the way, any person can lower their ph from diet without any use of supplements.)    Neither am I saying the not getting FDA approval means anything because many vitamins also don't have such an approval.  Another loophole for these type of supplements.

I guess Asea would have the same disclaimer as Innerlight carries on its bottle:

PRODUCT DISCLAIMER
Because InnerLight products are natural food supplements, the statements about the products have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.  This independent distributor and InnerLight Inc. does not engage directly or indirectly in diagnosing, dispensing medical advice, or prescribing the use of any of our products as a treatment for disease or sickness.  One should always consult a primary care physician/health practitioner of choice when considering nutritional supplementation for health purposes, especially when undergoing treatment for an existing condition. Pregnant individuals should also consult a physician before beginning supplementation.

As I said, I fell for these lofty claims before.  I was a marathon runner, completing every major race in my area (NY) and bicycled from San Francisco to LA.  After having a bad injury, I jumped on these supplements believing their claims.  Well absent hundreds of dollars later and sick to my stomach from some of these supplements (their distributors sought to change my diet so much, I would have ended up eating grass), I realized that such advertising, as with all health informercials (which by the way the government is starting to clamp down on) play upon our deep desire to be healthy and pain free.  These type of pitches go way back since the early 1900s and I know that they will not stop.  I love the research this recent university just did on drinkig water scams and its history.  You might find it tongue-in-cheek too!

http://www.aces.edu/waterquality/DrinkingWaterScams-Regional%20PPT-web.ppt

Good arguments and I don't put the weight on the patents as some sort of validity for the product, just that 17 million is a lot to put toward a scam.  I truly believe in the science behind it, as again, I learned about Redox signaling at UW and that is why I think it is legitimate.  The VO2max test was a real life test that showed incredible results as Rickdowns says he wants to see.   In my opinion, the reason they went with an MLM is simple...Money and control of rights.   I have nothing against that, especially if the product does what it claims.  Could it be a fraud and they are selling it as an MLM to get as much money as quickly as possible before it is exposed... possibly, but again that would end a career of a atomic physicist involved in doing some amazing things at University of Utah.  As for those other MLM's  that the attorney mentioned, I haven't heard of them, but if the science was as concrete as redox signaling and it was a failed product I can see why we all should be skeptical. 

Last one I promise. I had to respond to these great arguments.  As for now I have no reason not to believe it doesn’t work, but I will watch with a little more skepticism.  It still leads to the fact that we shouldn’t just dismiss it because it because it is an MLM.  I sold Cutco knives in a sort of MLM way in the summer while going to school, but have not been involved in any other MLM's.  I was attracted to this one because I learned of Redox signaling in my premed courses and felt comfortable that this is legitimate.   

They *have* demonstrated it scientifically. The reason it is not sold as are vitamins is that the pharmaceutical industry then has an opening to try to shut them down, which they have already tried to do. That industry profits from having people be in poor health a lot of the time. ASEA would cut severely into their bottom line.

Taking vitamin supplements is not as effective in general as directly increasing the cells' redox signalling capability. The competitive bikers are already eating super healthy diets and taking whatever vitamins they think will help them. ASEA went way beyond that in improving their performance.

Absolutely.  Further, have you actually done a patent search for patent assigned to or owned by the company?  You'll find that there isn't much there that would substantiate the wild claims being made for this product.

As an aside JHubbard, being a business owner, you have to spend money to make money.  If they spent $17 Million on this (that is if they did, I can make up any number and tell you I spent so much money on research, patents, etc.  There is no way to track that), I am sure that they foresee making much, much more.   As a matter of fact, billions are made by producers of MLM products every year.  $17 Million is a mere pittance compared to what they could gain. 

The nature of MLMs is based on a Guru-based model.  Sell your friends, sell your family, recruit, network, recruit, network, did I say RECRUIT!!

When a beloved friend of mine died from cancer, her daughter sought to sell Cutco knives.  I of course bought them.  Hey, they are good knives, although pricey.  Then she sought to get me to sell them under her.  I have invested $250 K in my business and had no thoughts of investing in anything on that level of marketing.  The good part is that it gave her a better sense of self.  Maybe that is what they are selling.  My sister was also a huge distributor fo Mary Kay.  She even got the car (as long as her sales were kept up).  What did she actually get? A greater sense of her self.  She went on to greater things of which I am proud of.  (Oh after Mary Kay, she decided to take those skills into real estate -- she failed.)   She went back to school got her masters and now is a psychologist for 1st time pregnant unwed mothers.  She treasures what she learned about herself at Mary Kay.

That being said, if you desire to know more about yourself, there are other venues to do so without investing so much time and money.  If that is the route you want to go, I support it.   However, I would suggest you to turn over every stone before you do. 

Here is an interesting link for you to look at:

http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/userfiles/file/COMPARE12MLMs-vsSellingvsNPSvsVegas-2pBarChart6-06.pdf

Good luck, and don't forget to "keep it real!"

So WHERE are these "scientifically" "demonstrated" results??    Please provide a link to some real scientific results.   And don't give me this lame pharmaceutical industry conspiracy theory crap. If your product did what you claim it does, the pharmaceutical industry would buy it for a few billion dollars, and they would market it properly (not this inefficient and shady MLM stuff) and add it to their bottom line.

Beyond all that there is NO evidence whatsoever that drinking this, even if the ions it may have are actually involved in REDOX processes that they will even get to the individual cells all over the body where it might be used.  Just becuase you drink something doesn't mean it gets everywhere in the body (or anywhere at all).  If you've got proof of this please share it becuase I have not seen it.

  If you actually want to learn anything and not just presume ASEA people guilty without due process, contact my husband Chuck, chagelgans@hotmail.com who willl be happy to answer any specific questions you have and direct you to appropriate supporting literature. Have an open mind. Yes it's an extraordinary claim. There is also extraordinary proof on the individual level for many people who have used ASEA. I always ask for my money back when there is a guarantee and I'm not satisfied. Chuck was ready to do so as well. I am a scientist and I don't embrace these things lightly. I've seen what ASEA has done for my husband. People can try it with no risk. There is nobody being evil here. Yes modern society breeds cynicism, but you don't have to let it cripple you. RK

I have not posted here for a while hoping that this subject would just drop.  I am sick of folks who make claims without backing up those claims.  In all respect for your credentials, please publish your findings in a public arena and let them stand to the test. 

Why not publish them in the NY Times or any reputable publication and let it be backed up, in your words, scientically.  Right now you sound like you are defending your position by backing it with what you call yourself -- a Scientist.  Well if that is the case, to public, publish who you are, your credential, your findings, your husband's identity, his doctor's findings of his prognosis, etc.  If not, please stop.

You are sounding like a Moonie (my apologies to the Moonies)!

It's not my product, not my claims. We are just satisfied customers. The claims are backed up. You just aren't reading the info and I've already provided you with an email to my husband who can give you the info: chagelgans@hotmail.com

If you haven't even tried to get the info then why are you complaining?

Thanks
RK

Actually,. Miss Know-It-All, I have followed up on this.    I had been interested in ASEA for a close friend of mine who has Stage 4 Lung Cancer.

When I looked into the studies, I found that none of the studies were independent.  I also found that most of them came out of same folks who produced ASEA. 

As far as your hubby goes, have him produce his name here, his doctor's names and address and/or his doctors prognosis of his condition that was directly improved by his use of ASEA.  I would definitely like to talk to his doctor to get his professional opinion.

And before you jump down my or anybody's throat, remember that you qualified yourself as a scientist.  Given that fact, you positioning yourself as a authority here.  If you are so scientific, then I am sure that you can look at any response objectively rather than to answer with a knee-jerk reaction, which further puts me off from this discussion.

Thanks and have a great day!

No one is presuming that ASEA people are"guilty".  Merely that they are not objective, that they have a vested interest.  So you can stop that diversionary tactic.

Still, we've asked for published studies, and studies that are publicly available and nothing yet again.  We're told, contact this guy and he'll tell you.  So nothing is public, just that we'll whisper some "study" information and that should be good enough for you.  Really??  So nothing that the public can have, so it can be objectively and independently assessed and validated.  Just take some guy's word for it who will only tell you privately.  Amazing. 

And still with the pharmaceutical industry conspiracy theories.  All nonsense.  If you think logically and sensibly and aren't paranoid, you'll see than none of those thing hold any water at all.  They are not logical or even good policy for the Pharma industry.

And why haven't the media picked up on this ASEA miracle?  Because there are no serious published studies to go on.  There is no real information, just assertion screamed over the internet by surrogates (so the ASEA Co. itself can distance themselves from and "claims").  If there was anything really there, ASEA would be publishing studies all over the place.  In the mainstream media, in the alternative media, in scientific journals.  All that would turn directly into real sales.  But there is none of that.  They prefer to keep things quiet, make outrageous claims person-to-person, and charge 5-10 times what the product could be sold for through regular retail channels. If the claims were real, and justified by serious, objective studies, then based on the claims you hear for this product, the ASEA company would be worth billions more than it is.

Finally as for the redox stuff.  Yes, redox processes occur in the body.  But there is no direct link between that and the ASEA product.  There is no information as to what is actually in the ASEA product other than salt and water, no mention what ions, molecules, etc. the product actually contains.  They imply by association that it is the same, but do not actually say it -- more protection for the company.  And then even if the molecules and ions are the same, there is no evidence that drinking them will reach the cells in the body when they might be used.  Drinking them could have ZERO bio-availability.  They could be totally neutralized by stomach acid and other digestive processes. 

There is NO proof of anything offered, nothing that can be reviewed objectively and independently.   Any one who can't see through all this is blinded by hope, faith, or ignorance  -- and ASEA is there to exploit them.  What was it that P. T. Barnum once said...